[early alpha] Looking for early testers of new App...

carlinyuen · 05-05-2022 09:08 AM

Hello community!

We're in the early stages of testing a new AppSheet database feature, and we'd love to have a few folks help us test it out. The problems we're trying to solve center around brittleness and scalability issues with using spreadsheets today:

When new people try AppSheet, they often find it confusing to jump back and forth between the spreadsheet and the app editor.
There's a lot of friction in the process of data modeling (needing to update, then regenerate schema, then fix errors).
Spreadsheets do not scale well for large data sets and many concurrent users. Cloud DBs require administration and extra provisioning steps.

Criteria for testers:

Have built more than 2 apps in AppSheet using Sheets as a data source.
Have felt challenges using Sheets and the current data modeling experience.
Interested in trying very early features that may change the current UX and break/not be fully functional and give constructive feedback.

If you are interested in testing this feature, please sign up here.

SkrOYC

Three questions:

The criteria of "More thant 2 apps in AppSheet using Sheets" mean a worksheet or just GSheets? Because I'd love to try this but I always use MSExcel
Does this mean that this is an alpha database option or that all of the feature will be unstable for the AppSheet account on the UX side?
Since this is a database, we should expect this to be available just as Enterprise after this is a stable feature or will be available to anyone to use?

carlinyuen

Hey SkrOYC, thanks for the quick questions, some answers:

You can still try this even if you don't use Sheets and use Excel instead! That would be an interesting perspective for us.
This is an alpha database option and only the UI pieces that relate to this feature may be unstable, it should not affect existing UI for other data sources and the app UIs should all stay the same.
We're still working out where this feature would sit in terms of the tiers, so I don't have an answer for you yet, but feedback on this is something we're looking for.

SkrOYC

Thanks, I'm in.

An extra question, can we expect to have access to this database externally via API for example to perform direct CRUD operations?

carlinyuen

Thanks, SkrOYC! We won't have a separate API available during this early testing period (although you could arguably use the AppSheet APIs to do something similar), but that's certainly on our roadmap!

Jonathon

Hey - definitely interested in testing this out!

carlinyuen

Awesome, Jonathon! Glad to hear that. 🙂

1minManager

Ok signed up 🙂

Have built more than 2 apps in AppSheet using Sheets as a data source.

Yup, built probably getting near to 100 using only sheets

Have felt challenges using Sheets and the current data modeling experience.

I suppose one "difficulty" is that its a pain unless you have at least 2 large monitors, one for the definition and the other for the spreadsheet. Trying to do Appsheet dev on a laptop is not fun.

Also adding new columns is a bit of a nightmare if you've got users using the app 24/7. With some of my bigger Apps I've take to adding up to 10 temp columns (e.g. [Temp1],[Temp2],[Temp3]...) at the end of the spreadsheet table so these can just be renamed and used if required.

Sheets can get bogged down when you have not a lot of data in there. Also I'm finding more and more I'm having to create a convuluted Form Save actions that replicates what a simple virtual column would do. i.e. update a column in a parent record.

I've love to move all Apps to SQL. But the cost of appsheet licenses exceeds what I can pass on to my clients. Though I note that https://about.appsheet.com/pricing/ now doesn't mention SQL 🤔 Though to be clear, I'm ok with the cost of renting a Google SQL instance.

Interested in trying very early features that may change the current UX and break/not be fully functional and give constructive feedback.

Sure why not. Live fast die young. Is there anything thing in this deal for us developers? Discounted licences, prority support, hand written christmas cards from Sergey, Larry and @praveen, all expenses paid trips to Vegas? Surely Appsheet has some merch' they can send over? 😂

carlinyuen

😂 I'd love some hand-written xmas cards too!

Appreciate the context, @1minManager! Unfortunately I don't have many cool goodies to offer to sweeten the deal, but I'll see what I can wrangle up. 🙂

SkrOYC

@1minManager wrote:
Have felt challenges using Sheets and the current data modeling experience.
I suppose one "difficulty" is that its a pain unless you have at least 2 large monitors, one for the definition and the other for the spreadsheet. Trying to do Appsheet dev on a laptop is not fun.
Also adding new columns is a bit of a nightmare if you've got users using the app 24/7. With some of my bigger Apps I've take to adding up to 10 temp columns (e.g. [Temp1],[Temp2],[Temp3]...) at the end of the spreadsheet table so these can just be renamed and used if required.
Sheets can get bogged down when you have not a lot of data in there. Also I'm finding more and more I'm having to create a convuluted Form Save actions that replicates what a simple virtual column would do. i.e. update a column in a parent record.
I've love to move all Apps to SQL. But the cost of appsheet licenses exceeds what I can pass on to my clients. Though I note that https://about.appsheet.com/pricing/ now doesn't mention SQL 🤔 Though to be clear, I'm ok with the cost of renting a Google SQL instance.

+99999999999 Totally with you @1minManager

@1minManager wrote:
Interested in trying very early features that may change the current UX and break/not be fully functional and give constructive feedback.
Sure why not. Live fast die young. Is there anything thing in this deal for us developers? Discounted licences, prority support, hand written christmas cards from Sergey, Larry and @praveen, all expenses paid trips to Vegas? Surely Appsheet has some merch' they can send over? 😂

Sounds great 🤔

BTW:

Marc_Dillon

Sounds exciting. I signed up!

Rafael_ANEIC-PY

a in-house solution for databases inside appsheet included on the core licence would be awesome

carlinyuen

Thanks, Rafael, that's great to hear (of course, we think so too :). Glad
to hear validation of this being a useful feature/need.

SkrOYC

Can we expect this to be the sql/no-sql hybrid to support real time data?

carlinyuen

Not to let the cat out of the bag, but that is the long-term vision. 🙂
Keep in mind, getting to real-time data really requires significant rework
across how AppSheet does things, so you won't see this immediately in this
early testing phase.

SkrOYC

Thanks. Yes, this seems to be the delayed Firebase integration mentioned last year and even if I don't expect to have realtime info right now, it sounded like the needed step to integrate realtime capability.

Thanks again for the insight!

carlinyuen

Oh, to clarify one point there -- this feature is not implemented using
Firebase actually, but in general, the problems we're trying to solve and
how we want to move AppSheet apps and data modeling/interactions towards
more real-time is there. 🙂

SkrOYC

Yep, that's what I understanded. We don't know (and maybe shouldn't) if this is on Firebase or not, but this AppSheet Database goes towards the real-time database need we have, that's why a lot of people expects Firebase integration

diogolupcosta

Count on me!

Ami

My imagination is taking me to two types of scenarios:

1. Being able on a core plan to have data on a sql DB and pay per transactions

2. Being able to deploy a non cloud app on a local company network connected to a local sql DB

carlinyuen

Some interesting ideas, Ami! To set expectations, it is not #2, but that's an interesting use case as well. 🙂

dbaum

Very exciting possibilities. db on a plan with pricing akin to current Core plan (or even more flexible re monthly user variation) would be very valuable.

carlinyuen

Thanks for the insight, @dbaum. PS I think we see your submission in the form, but we need your AppSheet account ID number, if you're able to send it to me privately, I can update it.

dbaum

Yep, that was me. I'll find the number you're referencing and DM.

SkrOYC

It should be after any app you made and also under this link:

https://www.appsheet.com/Account/Account

Martina_Hawkins

Signed up. Have been having major issues using Microsoft SharePoint as data source. Planning this weekend to move one of our live apps to an Azure SQL database. Hopefully will resolve some issues. Cost of Enterprise plan is also a major concern.

Karimmc2

This sounds amazing. Count me in!

Luke_H

Very interested. Most of my development is in SQL with gsheets supporting various apps. I'm in on anything to help expedite realtime data or improvement in database efficiency.

mcopp0315

I'm all over this!! Would be thrilled to be a part of testing something new -- just let me know what you need!

carlinyuen

Thanks mcopp! We're slowly adding folks in waves, so hope you don't mind
being a bit patient (the feature is really quite early still), but looking
forward to bringing you into the mix as well!

mcopp0315

Of course! I have been lurking around AppSheet with patient fascination for so many years. Having zero tech background, was placing many phone calls the AppSheet Helpdesk when I first started! Yep, that was a thing! Chatted with Santiago about my use case in healthcare and recall begging him to pursue HIPAA compliance. I knew this could be huge! Today, my income fully relies on AppSheet and I'm honored to support ALL the success for these guys

MrLee

SQL Cloud của google có tính phí nhưng các gói cơ bản lại không hỗ trợ SQL Cloud gg.

Nếu các gói cơ bản có tích hợp SQL google thì thật là tuyệt vời về hiệu suất cho đa số nhà phát triển đang sử dụng appsheet.

vaiari

No time to join, but my humble 2 cents : appsheet should use googlesheets' functions not excel's. googlefinance is an example. stripping googlesheet to excel then using the stripped version in appsheets not only throws errors and give frustration but IMHO, meaningless.

SkrOYC

Afaik, AppSheet uses his internal functions/expressions, it has nothing to do with Excel nor Sheets.

BTW, AppSheet was bought by Google, not founded by them, so no bias around wich functions it should've "copied"

Cortex

Hi,

+1 🖐
Intensive Sheets User here, with intricate google script "backend" [ PS : the "new" appsheet script call make my life way easier ]

I do think i've reached the limit of what can be possible with sheets database and knowledge associated with their optimization.

You can count on me to be dedicated to test this alpha.

Regard,

DarenJanes

Signed up! This tool has so much potential when hooked up to a relational database. I'm a veteran Oracle DBA/Developer guy who has watched legacy low-code tools like "Oracle Case Designer" get pushed aside for "modern" tools like "Jdeveloper" to only see the design/build lifecyle times increase 10 fold. Huge potential in this tool as it leans towards real-time data with relational databases. The "AppSheet" name is holding it back a little actually. I wish it were called "AppCloud" or even "GoogleApp" would work as well.

Thanks for moving this great tool along!

Daren

scott192

Is this the new database?

https://support.google.com/area120-tables#topic=9904105

carlinyuen

Hi Scott -- you and @SkrOYC and @DarenJanes are on the right track. 🙂

We're leveraging some of the existing product but it's largely a rewrite to better align with AppSheet and app-building needs.

scott_robinson

I've been keeping an eye on Tables for a while but it has yet to be allowed outside US.

One thing I noticed about it is that (again) it is not being certified as HIPAA and FERMA compliant. Whether that will come or not in the future is not disclosed.

One of the feature requests I believe for Appsheet was to have a way for data to be encrypted/decrypted as it transfers from the backend datastore to appsheets servers for processing etc.

Would you be able to know whether this could possibly be a function of the new datastore based on tables for Appsheet?

SkrOYC

Google’s AirTable rival, Tables, graduates from beta test to become a Google Cloud product &#8...

...maybe?

[early alpha] Looking for early testers of new AppSheet database feature