Why forcing us to use google drive / cloud

[CK]

why you are forcing us to use google cloud for our own docs, I don't want to upload my files to the cloud, and I have thousands of old files that I rarely use them and I don't want to send all of them to google drive

1- there is no google docs extension so you can't download the files to ur computer,  you have to download them as xlsx then when you need to work on them again you have to upload them to the drive to be able to convert them to google sheet and use all edit options.
2- there is no google app for windows to open google docs directly and editing them without the need of google drive/cloud
3- you can't fully edit office files without saving them to google drive,  you are given minor edit options that are useless and you are forced to save the file in the drive to convert it to google sheet to open all edit options !!!

are all of these annoying issues to force us to use cloud and pay for cloud storage or just to make all our data available to google

so we are forced to keep using office and google both together and we can't fully migrate to google apps. 

[KAM]

Now that you got that rant out of your system, you might want to look at this extension so you can edit your docs offline https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/google-docs-offline/ghbmnnjooekpmoecnnnilnnbdlolhkhi and more instructions here: https://support.google.com/docs/answer/6388102?hl=en&co=GENIE.Platform%3DDesktop

It won't fix all your complaints but Google is a cloud firm, so if you aren't prepared to go cloud, it's likely not a great solution for you.  But experiment with this and let me know how you progress.

Happy New Year, KAM

[CK]

Hi Kam,

sorry I didn't see ur reply as it went to the spam folder of google gmail!!

I am using that chrome extension but as I mentioned it doesn't offer full edit options for the MS office files unless you upload the files to google drive, which is a bad and malicious behaviour by google.

why there is no file extension for google docs as docx or xls..... as we have to download them as MS office files ! and if we want to edit them again we have to upload these Ms office files to google cloud and convert them to google docs again to open ALL the edit options! 

if you don't want to allow downloading of the google doc files as google files then at least allow full edit of MS office files offline! 

we are thrown in the middle and can't fully convert to google docs. 

[StephenHind]

@CK 

we are thrown in the middle and can't fully convert to google docs. 

Your thinking is the wrong way round: if you want to fully convert to using Google Docs then you need to stop thinking of trying to use Word/Excel on your desktop and start using Google Docs/Sheets in the cloud.  If you don't want to do that then you don't want to fully convert to Google Docs.

What may be more informative for us to help you is if you can identify the actual issues you are facing, as the ones you have mentioned already are not issues if you fully convert to Google Docs.

1- there is no google docs extension so you can't download the files to ur computer, you have to download them as xlsx then when you need to work on them again you have to upload them to the drive to be able to convert them to google sheet and use all edit options.

Google Docs/Drive natively provides offline editing for Docs/Sheets/Slides and offline editing for Word/Excel/PowerPoint files - no extension is required.  Yes you have first to either upload your legacy files to Google Drive to allow Google Docs editing of those legacy files (no conversion required), including offline editing, or convert them to the Google Docs equivalent to get the best from the system.  Just to be clear  you DO NOT need to convert the legacy files to Google Docs to get offline editing: Google Docs can edit MS Office files offline without conversion, but you do need to first upload them to Google Drive.  I don't know why you're objecting to uploading your files to Google Drive (please explain why) because if you didn't want to do what why did you invest in Google Workspace?

Here's a screenshot showing editing a .xslx file while offline just using Chrome:

2- there is no google app for windows to open google docs directly and editing them without the need of google drive/cloud

Well of course not: Google Workspace is a cloud-only/cloud-first based system; I'm not sure why you would expect there to be a Windows desktop app.  As in your previous point why would you invest in Google Workspace if you didn't want to be cloud native?

I'm not sure why you made your third point:

3- you can't fully edit office files without saving them to google drive, you are given minor edit options that are useless and you are forced to save the file in the drive to convert it to google sheet to open all edit options !!!

if your closing statement in your last response is true:

can't fully convert to google docs

The only thing stopping you from fully converting to Google Docs is you not wanting to.  If you want to fully convert then you need to convert your files; if you don't want to convert your files then you don't want to fully convert to Google Docs.

why there is no file extension for google docs as docx or xls..... as we have to download them as MS office files !

I would've thought that should be obvious: Google Workspace is separate to MS Office and will never provide 100% compatibility because Google is deliberately trying to do things differently, a cloud-only/cloud-first approach with Google Workspace, as it's a better approach to work than MS Office's desktop-first approach (especially in these remote working times).  If you didn't want a cloud-first approach why did you choose Google Workspace?

if you don't want to allow downloading of the google doc files as google files then at least allow full edit of MS office files offline!

You have an unrealistic expectation here: not even Microsoft offers full editing of MS office files online, so why would Google Workspace?  If you do want to fully convert to Google Docs why would you want to continue with the legacy MS Office files?

Can you explain your objection to uploading your files to Google Drive? Can you explain your objection to converting your files to Google Docs?

[CK]

thanks for ur long reply but looks like you don't understand my point or you use the Cloud in one way method, there are hundred of scenarios on how to use or to reuse the cloud services.

1- Cloud saving or traditional saving of my own data with my own format (google sheet) should be easily available, some files might need to be saved and processed in house or even for back up reasons or any other reason as faster integration with other inhouse services.  

> I need to save my files from google doc to my own computer with google sheet format not MS office format! then when I want to process them I can go back to google cloud again for processing.

2- there is an option at google to edit MS office files offline when they aren't saved at google drive/cloud, but they open minor edit options that are useless

the main edit options will be opened only if you save ur file at the cloud, they call it office compatibility mode, and it means that you have to use our cloud so we open all our edit options for you!!!!!

to be transparent google have to:

>> allow the download of Google sheet as google document so we can keep using our Google docs format easily

or

>>show all the edit options for MS files offline as you show it at cloud so we can keep using the MS office files normally

[StephenHind]

@CK I'm sorry but you have a fundamental misunderstanding about Google Workspace - let me explain with inline responses.

1- Cloud saving or traditional saving of my own data with my own format (google sheet) should be easily available, some files might need to be saved and processed in house or even for back up reasons or any other reason as faster integration with other inhouse services.  

If by "in house" you mean stored locally then this is not possible with Google Sheets and never will be - Google Sheets is cloud-only with offline editing capabilities available in Google Chrome.

If you think you need local storage for back up reasons then this is not possible either - you need to use a cloud-to-cloud backup solution like AFI - this is just how Google Workspace works, you cannot change that.

I need to save my files from google doc to my own computer with google sheet format not MS office format! then when I want to process them I can go back to google cloud again for processing.

If you mean you want offline editing in Google Sheets then you just do this natively in Google Chrome - nothing else is required - see Use Google Drive files offline. These files are not stored in your file system but in Google Chrome.

2- there is an option at google to edit MS office files offline when they aren't saved at google drive/cloud, but they open minor edit options that are useless

Correct: Google no longer suggests you use it: instead upload the MS Office file and use Google Docs to edit it - see: Work with Microsoft Office files. If you want these MS Office files synced to your local computer then Use Google Drive for desktop. If you're doing this, however then you're not fully converting to Google Docs because you're still using MS Office files.  Google will never create a desktop app to edit MS Office files as it's counter-productive to Google's aim of making everything cloud-based.

to be transparent google have to:

>> allow the download of Google sheet as google document so we can keep using our Google docs format easily

Google does provide offline editing via the built-in functionality in Google Chrome - see the link provided earlier: Use Google Drive files offline.

>>show all the edit options for MS files offline as you show it at cloud so we can keep using the MS office files normally

You get more editing options when you use Google Docs to Work with Microsoft Office files. but if you need them offline as well then Use Google Drive for desktop.

Your stated goal, however, was to fully convert to Google Docs so if you want to do that simply use Google Docs (and convert your existing MS Office files if you want to) as Google Docs offers full offline editing in Google Chrome (you can even edit MS Office files offline with Google Docs as demonstrated in screenshot the previous post).

If your expectation is for Google Docs to appear as files on your computer that will never happen as Google Docs are not files but only exist as online entities (unless you make them available offline in Google Chrome, but even then  they are not accessible as files on your computer). This is how Google Docs/Workspace is designed and how it works so if you're expecting a different behaviour wou will only be disappointed.

[CK]

thanks for ur long reply, 

I am a pro developer and I use multiple systems other than google, it's not the first time I use cloud or workspace! am using these platforms for years.

most of ur answers are about the "WHAT", I don't care about wt is the system designed for, as this is another big complicated topic , I care about the "HOW", how it should function and integrate better.

from a developer point of view, if google can show all these edit options for the MS files while they are in the cloud then they have to be straightforward and show them either when the file isn't at the cloud, no need to use these turn around methods to push people to go to cloud.

[CK]

google drive for desktop and all these similar apps are another big turnaround and joke to force the cloud,  it's not a drive on ur computer it's on the cloud and you have to upload them to the cloud to see them at ur google drive, and you have to go back to the first step again!

I am trying these extensions and methods for years and nothing can work smoothly as the problem is in the whole process that google want to enforce 

[StephenHind]

@CK you're fighting a lonely and uphill battle there. Make the feature requests you want but it really sounds like that Google Workspace isn't for you. Google Workspace is there to provide a better way of working and is different because it's better. If you're unwilling to work in a different way then you'll always find Google Workspace odd. Google isn't trying to replicate what everyone has done for years but a completely different approach, so expecting it to be anything but different is unrealistic.

[CK]

thanks for ur replies but most of them aren't related to the core issue am trying to clear over here.

you support designing a TV that works only for one channel and you proclaim it's a great design because you only watch this channel, but when you need to watch another  channel then you will have to buy another TV

I am aware how big cloud systems work and how they were built! and the options I ask for are already available at google and all other Cloud systems, don't know why you make me feel that am asking for a weird thing! 

it's ABC integration, especially when you come late to the document processing market then you have to integrate ur apps with all other companies so you can grab their clients to ur side! 

[StephenHind]

@CK

I am aware how big cloud systems work and how they were built! and the options I ask for are already available at google and all other Cloud systems, don't know why you make me feel that am asking for a weird thing! 

You appear to be unaware that Google Docs/Sheets/Slides aren't files, hence why they do not work in the same way - that's the point I'm trying to get across to you.  You can do exactly what you want with Google Drive and Microsoft Word documents and have a desktop app, Microsoft Word, to edit them with as Word documents are files and you can sync them to your local system with Google Drive for desktop. Google Docs are not files, however, and, therefore, you cannot expect the same ways of working - Google Drive for Desktop does not put a file-version of the Google Doc on your local system but merely a shortcut to the Doc online as that's the only place it can exist. 

Google have made offline editing possible in Google Chrome only as it's a completely proprietary system, not like files and folders, hence why it's not available as a file in the local system.

I hope this helps you understand why I don't think Google will ever give you what you want as it's not the direction Google wants to go in and doesn't need to.

[CK]

ok so you are telling me if you design something in certain way then you should never add features to it or integrate it with other apps because it was designed like that at the first time! as this is the only thing I can understand from ur answers, it was designed like this! 

CLOUD doesn't mean they aren't files!!!!!

they are files and have file extension!!! they are processed as files but they are built to be used only online, actually allow downloading them as files will make google expand more into the word processing market.

you can ignore the above issue as it needs some extra work and efforts, but how about the second issue which is:  why most of the offline edit options for office files are hidden unless you move ur files to the cloud! this alone show the whole story.

I know you can syn and use the google desktop drive, all these options are work around that take more steps and waste more time, things should be fast and automatic

[StephenHind]

@CK 

they are files and have file extension!!!

Either we are talking at cross-purposes or there's some cognitive dissonance going on here. I'm referring to exclusively Google Docs/Sheets/Slides/Drawings - these are not files in any way and are not stored as files in Google Drive.  Google Drive displays them as files as something familiar to everyone, but they are not files.  You can convert them to files, i.e. Google Docs can be converted to Word Documents, Google Sheets to Excel Spreadsheets, but in the Google Docs format they are never files: where is the file extension you refer to in the Google Doc's URL, e.g. https://docs.google.com/document/d/12SJsyibWB5bAMPDjcXm-wgybthYihoabIcl54FO40rI/edit

When you're referring to them as files and having file extensions are you referring to what you see on your local computer with the .gdoc or .gsheet file extensions? If you are have you never looked at what those files actually are? They are not the Google Docs or Sheets (a simple inspection of the file-size should make that obvious to you) but merely a shortcut for the Google Drive app to open the URL online, because the Google Docs are not files. Have you tried opening the .gdoc in a text editor? For more info see https://fileinfo.com/extension/gdoc#:~:text=How%20do%20I%20open%20a,the%20document%20to%20open%20it.

they are processed as files

No they are represented as files in your local system and in Google Drive on the web so you can move them around in folders and file them in a logical hierarchy, but they are not stored like that with Google, it's just a database entry with metadata.

but they are built to be used only online, actually allow downloading them as files will make google expand more into the word processing market.

Well Google obviously doesn't think that else it will have done it by now - Google Docs isn't new and Google's never offered it in the past decade, because Google Docs are not files, and don't need to be represented as such. To correctly backup a Google Doc you would need to connect to the Google Docs API and pull the content from the doc and then keep it in some way that you could recreate the Google Doc with (e.g. a JSON), but that wouldn't contain the version history.

If you need files then MS Office is your friend, but Google's successfully offered Google Docs for a very long time without using any kind of file format.  Yes a Google Doc can be represented as a file, i.e. the shortcut on your local storage or as an icon on the web but it inherently isn't a file that's stored on a server. That's why real-time collaboration works so much better in Google Docs than what MS Office offers as MS is trying to sync files and Google Docs isn't, it's merely syncing the data flow to and from the Doc.

If, in fact, you're not referring to the .gdoc .gsheet files then let us know what you are referring to as we're talking at cross-purposes.

[CK]

thanks for ur reply but you are taking the whole conversation to another different direction.

lets say google process files at the cloud using any other method, they can also and easily allow downloading the files in any universal format that is fully supported by them without any need for conversions or extra steps.

forget about the file format as this is a side topic, my main point is :
why most of the offline edit options for office files are hidden unless you move ur files to the cloud!

[KAM · Accepted solution]

@StephenHind and @CK I don't understand this debate.

Google is a cloud company.  You don't seem to gel with the way Google works and that's usually an exercise in pain to use Google if you don't agree with their methods and directions.  If you want Google to add a feature, you are going to need to state a business use case that states what your problem is and what your desired outcome is.  There is a feature request section you can apply for access but frankly, Google is unlikely to make an desktop software beyond the offline extension.

However, Google editors like docs/sheets/slides are files and you can actually store them on Dropbox (sorry Stephen).  Perhaps this helps with your needs, CK.  https://help.dropbox.com/installs-integrations/third-party/create-google-docs

Regards,
KAM

[StephenHind]

@CK fair enough, but to summarise, as @KAM has suggested, you're asking Google Docs to not be Google Docs and lose its advantage of how it works.

@KAM Yes I know you can edit Google Docs in DropBox, but again they're not files (the Docs are represented as files in the folder hierarchy - if you export the Google Doc from DropBox what file do you get?

[Youssef]

Yes my I don't how Tu send this why my I have only ting

[Youssef]

Ok

[Koronfli]

After reading the whole discussion, I must say I understand CK's point of view, as I have many similar thoughts myself. I also agree with Stephen that Google and Microsoft have different approaches, specially regarding the cloud. What I know for sure is that most companies have their own vision and mentality and they are stuck with it, I bet most feature requests are simply ignored. Personally I believe that Google doesn't need to abandon its cloud-centric focus to add a few new features which would certainly attract current Microsoft users. I'm sure it's technically possible, Google just doesn't want to do it. Period. I found out that by using Google Drive I can partially solve this by simply clicking the Google docs files (whether they're shortcuts or not) and I can open them instantly from Windows desktop, (or even in a dedicated window, by ''installing" the corresponding app from Chrome), without the need to open Google Drive every time:

As for Office files, forcing the user to upload them to Google Drive to view and fully edit them is just lazy, since they don't want to make any significant effort to provide support to another company's solution. 

You can work in Microsoft Word both in totally offline files AND directly in files stored in OneDrive (that is, using the cloud), which by the way is perfect if you have OneDrive installed too as you'll always have a local copy and a cloud one, with the exact same content. Why can't Google do that? Because they don't want. But they could. So, this is not a technical constraint.